Comments on: Raga Lakshana – Vamsavati http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/ Guruguha.org Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:27:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Vijay http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/comment-page-1/#comment-15 Vijay Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:42:24 +0000 http://guruguha.org/blog/?p=8#comment-15 Request for the next raga! Request for the next raga!

]]> By: Ramdas Menon http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/comment-page-1/#comment-10 Ramdas Menon Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:19:11 +0000 http://guruguha.org/blog/?p=8#comment-10 Dear Ravi: I just wanted to tell you how we have learnt the kriti. The arohana taught to us is s r gm p n d n s, avarohana is s n p m g r s. And yes, the p r s phrase is used a couple of times. As far as Samantha is concerned, we do not use D3 in singing the kriti. I would love to hearyour version of Visvanathena Samrakshitoham though! Let me thank you for your scholarly analysis. A lot of musicians and so-called musicologists can learn from you. Dear Ravi: I just wanted to tell you how we have learnt the kriti. The arohana taught to us is s r gm p n d n s, avarohana is s n p m g r s.
And yes, the p r s phrase is used a couple of times.
As far as Samantha is concerned, we do not use D3 in singing the kriti. I would love to hearyour version of Visvanathena Samrakshitoham though!
Let me thank you for your scholarly analysis. A lot of musicians and so-called musicologists can learn from you.

]]> By: Raviraj http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/comment-page-1/#comment-9 Raviraj Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:01:43 +0000 http://guruguha.org/blog/?p=8#comment-9 Dr Shrikaanth: 1. For some reason I was unable to correct the typo. It will be done. 2. I had indicated not the scale per se ( which texts already have done so) but the melodic contours of Vamsavati as outlined in the kritiby Dikshitar. Nothing more. 3. Again vadi-samvadi - I had meant to be more simplistic- as to notes which are most frequent. Dr Shrikaanth:

1. For some reason I was unable to correct the typo. It will be done.

2. I had indicated not the scale per se ( which texts already have done so) but the melodic contours of Vamsavati as outlined in the kritiby Dikshitar. Nothing more.

3. Again vadi-samvadi – I had meant to be more simplistic- as to notes which are most frequent.

]]> By: Shrikaanth K. Murthy http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/comment-page-1/#comment-8 Shrikaanth K. Murthy Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:02:08 +0000 http://guruguha.org/blog/?p=8#comment-8 I am trying again to post parts which did not show up before. If it scrambles up again, please feel free to delete the same. >>>(Note: Lower case signifies mandhara stayi svara , upper case signifies mandhara stayi svara and italics in lower case denotes tara stayi)<<< You probably meant “Madhya sthAyi” in the second instance. You have also mentioned the mUrchane as follows pRSRGMPNs – PrsNDNPMGRS I am not sure if you meant to write it this way or it was an oversight. Why is the “pRS” and “Prs” added on to the scale. It is best to keep the scale simple. The viSESha prayOgas can be learnt either from the compositions themselves or by way of footnotes. The point you have made on “vAdi- samvAdi” in the rAga is also moot. While the vAdi- samvAdi among swaras is very much inherent to karNATaka sangIta, the concept in rAgas as seen in HM is not present. In fact antaragAndhAra is not a samvAdi to pancama in the strict sense of the word, as you are probably aware. Pancama and gAndhAra can be used as nyAsa swaras and to a lesser extent, madhyama as well. I am trying again to post parts which did not show up before. If it scrambles up again, please feel free to delete the same.

>>>(Note: Lower case signifies mandhara stayi svara , upper case signifies mandhara stayi svara and italics in lower case denotes tara stayi)<<<

You probably meant “Madhya sthAyi” in the second instance.

You have also mentioned the mUrchane as follows

pRSRGMPNs – PrsNDNPMGRS

I am not sure if you meant to write it this way or it was an oversight. Why is the “pRS” and “Prs” added on to the scale. It is best to keep the scale simple. The viSESha prayOgas can be learnt either from the compositions themselves or by way of footnotes.

The point you have made on “vAdi- samvAdi” in the rAga is also moot. While the vAdi- samvAdi among swaras is very much inherent to karNATaka sangIta, the concept in rAgas as seen in HM is not present. In fact antaragAndhAra is not a samvAdi to pancama in the strict sense of the word, as you are probably aware.

Pancama and gAndhAra can be used as nyAsa swaras and to a lesser extent, madhyama as well.

]]> By: Shrikaanth K. Murthy http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/comment-page-1/#comment-7 Shrikaanth K. Murthy Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:57:36 +0000 http://guruguha.org/blog/?p=8#comment-7 2- dIrghatva The elongation of the vivAdi swara also mitigates the vivAdi aspect. Singing PD3,NS and SR3,G---. nATa rAga is the classic example for usage of this technique. The ArOhaNa is karamasampUrNa despite having 2 vivAdi swaras. The use of gamaka itself is intrinsic to our music and hence that plays a part in all other techniques like vakra, dIrgha used to overcome vivAditva 4- mandarin That was a typo. Apologies. I meant rAga "mandAri". 5- My kRti- I have uploaded the same. Thanks http://www.rapidshare.co.uk/45630 2- dIrghatva
The elongation of the vivAdi swara also mitigates the vivAdi aspect. Singing PD3,NS and SR3,G—. nATa rAga is the classic example for usage of this technique. The ArOhaNa is karamasampUrNa despite having 2 vivAdi swaras. The use of gamaka itself is intrinsic to our music and hence that plays a part in all other techniques like vakra, dIrgha used to overcome vivAditva

4- mandarin

That was a typo. Apologies. I meant rAga “mandAri”.

5- My kRti- I have uploaded the same. Thanks

http://www.rapidshare.co.uk/45630

]]> By: Raviraj http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/comment-page-1/#comment-6 Raviraj Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:05:40 +0000 http://guruguha.org/blog/?p=8#comment-6 Dr Shrikaanth, Thanks for your feedback. 1. You are right. The D3 instance in "Bhaktavatsalam" are all madhya stayi only & not mandhara stayi. It was a typo on my part.I will correct my post. 2. The dhirgatva aspect of vivadi notes in the case of Nata - Can you elaborate ? I presume you are referring to the R3/G3 with the higher densitiy of R3 usage, right? But R3 is Natta's jiva svara as well. 3. On the other Vamsavati renditions that you pointed me to - I have heard all of them. (a)The rendition labelled as Lalitha Sivakumar is actually the lady duet I refer to in my post. I guess it is by the Mambalam Sisters. (b) Vijayashiva's "Vamsavati Sivayuvati" rendition closely follows Kalpakam Svaminathan's version. So I took hers as an authoritative benchmark. (c) Again the one labelled as "Vamsavati - DKJ" is yet another instance of wrong labelling. It is actually Vijay Siva's rendering. 4 . Ur comment - "....vamSavati melody shares boundaries with mandarin and amRtavarShiNi...."- I didnt understand what u meant by "mandarin". The PNS over-emphasis in the uttaranga will "amruthavarshinify" Vamsavati :-). 5. Thanks for the pointers to your Vamsavati kriti. I would appreciate a copy if possible to understand the conception better. RaviR Dr Shrikaanth,

Thanks for your feedback.

1. You are right. The D3 instance in “Bhaktavatsalam” are all madhya stayi only & not mandhara stayi. It was a typo on my part.I will correct my post.
2. The dhirgatva aspect of vivadi notes in the case of Nata – Can you elaborate ? I presume you are referring to the R3/G3 with the higher densitiy of R3 usage, right? But R3 is Natta’s jiva svara as well.
3. On the other Vamsavati renditions that you pointed me to – I have heard all of them. (a)The rendition labelled as Lalitha Sivakumar is actually the lady duet I refer to in my post. I guess it is by the Mambalam Sisters. (b) Vijayashiva’s “Vamsavati Sivayuvati” rendition closely follows Kalpakam Svaminathan’s version. So I took hers as an authoritative benchmark. (c) Again the one labelled as “Vamsavati – DKJ” is yet another instance of wrong labelling. It is actually Vijay Siva’s rendering.
4 . Ur comment – “….vamSavati melody shares boundaries with mandarin and amRtavarShiNi….”- I didnt understand what u meant by “mandarin”. The PNS over-emphasis in the uttaranga will “amruthavarshinify” Vamsavati :-) .
5. Thanks for the pointers to your Vamsavati kriti. I would appreciate a copy if possible to understand the conception better.

RaviR

]]> By: Shrikaanth K. Murthy http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/comment-page-1/#comment-5 Shrikaanth K. Murthy Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:33:20 +0000 http://guruguha.org/blog/?p=8#comment-5 Oops. I give up. It has scrambled up again Oops. I give up. It has scrambled up again

]]> By: Shrikaanth K. Murthy http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/comment-page-1/#comment-4 Shrikaanth K. Murthy Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:32:34 +0000 http://guruguha.org/blog/?p=8#comment-4 Thanks Vidya and Raviraj. Some parts of my comments have become scrambled. Here is that bit >>>(Note: Lower case signifies mandhara stayi svara , upper case signifies mandhara stayi svara and italics in lower case denotes tara stayi)<<>> mUrchana: pRSRGMPNs – PrsNDNPMGRS<<<I>>>“Thus there are only 3 instances and also the D3 usage is restricted to mandhara stayi only.”<<< All three instances are actually in the madhyasthAyi and not the mandrasthAyi. **** Thanks Vidya and Raviraj. Some parts of my comments have become scrambled. Here is that bit

>>>(Note: Lower case signifies mandhara stayi svara , upper case signifies mandhara stayi svara and italics in lower case denotes tara stayi)<<>> mUrchana: pRSRGMPNs – PrsNDNPMGRS<<>>“Thus there are only 3 instances and also the D3 usage is restricted to mandhara stayi only.”<<<

All three instances are actually in the madhyasthAyi and not the mandrasthAyi.

****

]]> By: Vidya http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/comment-page-1/#comment-3 Vidya Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:40:29 +0000 http://guruguha.org/blog/?p=8#comment-3 Dr.Shrikaanth, Thanks for your comment and the links. Just wanted to state clearly that I am not the author of this post. The author of the entry RaviRaj will address the specifics in your comment. Dr.Shrikaanth,

Thanks for your comment and the links. Just wanted to state clearly that I am not the author of this post. The author of the entry RaviRaj will address the specifics in your comment.

]]> By: Shrikaanth K. Murthy http://guruguha.org/blog/2009/01/raga-lakshana-vamsavati/comment-page-1/#comment-2 Shrikaanth K. Murthy Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:33:34 +0000 http://guruguha.org/blog/?p=8#comment-2 Good job Vidya. You have done a detailed analysis and presented it well. The explanation of the lyrical aspects and the sthaLapurANa is also well executed. Some points I would like to comment on >>>(Note: Lower case signifies mandhara stayi svara , upper case signifies mandhara stayi svara and italics in lower case denotes tara stayi)<<>> mUrchana: pRSRGMPNs – PrsNDNPMGRS<<<I>>>“Thus there are only 3 instances and also the D3 usage is restricted to mandhara stayi only.”<<< All three instances are actually in the madhyasthAyi and not the mandrasthAyi. **** With regards to the techniques used by MD for successful handling and avoiding of vivAditva, you have covered vakratva, alpatva and gamaka. There is also another prominent technique of “dIrghatva” or elongation of the vivAdi swara itself. The well-known example is nATa. The gIte of (muddu)venkaTamakhi in the SSP also features this in the antari and jAvada consistently but not in the dhruva. I also recall a scholarly article by vid||T.S.Satyavathi eons ago in some journal. I cannot recall anymore details from it. **** It is interesting to note that the vamSavati melody shares boundaries with mandarin and amRtavarShiNi which are more commonly used in current musical circuits. Here are links to some other renditions of MD’s vamSavati kRtis from sangeethapriya site http://sangeethamshare.org/sunil/guruguha/audio/krithis/bhaktavatsalaM--vaMsavati--Adi--Lalitha-Sivakumar.mp3 http://sangeethamshare.org/sunil/guruguha/audio/krithis/vaMsavati--vaMsavati--Adi--DKJ.mp3 http://sangeethamshare.org/sunil/guruguha/audio/krithis/vaMsavati--vaMsavati--Adi--Vijay-Shiva.mp3 I have composed a kRti “bekkasa beragAdenalla” in the rAga (triSra Eka/rUpaka tALa). There is some discussion of this kRti here http://rasikas.org/forum/topic109-jayachamaraja-odeyar-mysore-maharajah-part-ii-p5.html I have uploaded the notation here if you are interested. http://rapidshare.com/files/186498511/bekkasa_beragAdenall-_vamSavati-_Shrikaanth_K._Murthy.pdf.html Regards Shrikaanth K. Murthy Good job Vidya. You have done a detailed analysis and presented it well. The explanation of the lyrical aspects and the sthaLapurANa is also well executed.

Some points I would like to comment on

>>>(Note: Lower case signifies mandhara stayi svara , upper case signifies mandhara stayi svara and italics in lower case denotes tara stayi)<<>> mUrchana: pRSRGMPNs – PrsNDNPMGRS<<>>“Thus there are only 3 instances and also the D3 usage is restricted to mandhara stayi only.”<<<

All three instances are actually in the madhyasthAyi and not the mandrasthAyi.

****

With regards to the techniques used by MD for successful handling and avoiding of vivAditva, you have covered vakratva, alpatva and gamaka. There is also another prominent technique of “dIrghatva” or elongation of the vivAdi swara itself. The well-known example is nATa. The gIte of (muddu)venkaTamakhi in the SSP also features this in the antari and jAvada consistently but not in the dhruva. I also recall a scholarly article by vid||T.S.Satyavathi eons ago in some journal. I cannot recall anymore details from it.

****

It is interesting to note that the vamSavati melody shares boundaries with mandarin and amRtavarShiNi which are more commonly used in current musical circuits.

Here are links to some other renditions of MD’s vamSavati kRtis from sangeethapriya site

http://sangeethamshare.org/sunil/guruguha/audio/krithis/bhaktavatsalaM–vaMsavati–Adi–Lalitha-Sivakumar.mp3

http://sangeethamshare.org/sunil/guruguha/audio/krithis/vaMsavati–vaMsavati–Adi–DKJ.mp3

http://sangeethamshare.org/sunil/guruguha/audio/krithis/vaMsavati–vaMsavati–Adi–Vijay-Shiva.mp3

I have composed a kRti “bekkasa beragAdenalla” in the rAga (triSra Eka/rUpaka tALa). There is some discussion of this kRti here

http://rasikas.org/forum/topic109-jayachamaraja-odeyar-mysore-maharajah-part-ii-p5.html

I have uploaded the notation here if you are interested.

http://rapidshare.com/files/186498511/bekkasa_beragAdenall-_vamSavati-_Shrikaanth_K._Murthy.pdf.html

Regards
Shrikaanth K. Murthy

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